DeCamp Legal Services, P.C.
Legal - Public Relations - Lobbying
414 So. 11th Street
Lincoln, NE 68508
Fax: (402) 477-4487
Phone: (402) 477-3974
E-Mail: staff@decamplegal.com
Attorneys at Law
John W. DeCamp
John E. Beltzer
Antonio E. Bendezu
Steven A. Montag
Of Counsel:
Richard J. Mahlin
February 25, 1999
To Whom It Concerns:
The trial on February 5, 1999 resulted in a million dollar judgement. I believe that judgement, completely independent of the Default Judgement in the case because the singular issue was damages, makes it clear that the evidence presented was credible and Judge Urbom acted on that basis and to send a message to a number of individuals (both clean and dirty) who were a part of the Franklin saga. I believe the U.S. Attorney has no choice but to either CHARGE THE WITNESSES WITH PERJURY HAVING TESTIFIED UNDER OATH IN A FEDERAL COURT ON VERY MATERIAL MATTERS (From Murder to Bribery to Perjury to the most vile corruption involving young people) OR, THE U.S. ATTORNEY HAS AN OBLIGATION TO INIVESTIGATE. FURTHER INTO THE FRANKLIN SAGA AND REOPEN MATTERS This time there ARE PICTURES. This time RUSTY NELSON exists and testified completely contrary to Chief Wadman's testimony under oath to the legislature. This time Noreen Gosch validated the credibility and story of Paul Bonacci... and a lot, lot more. At minimum some Federal or State authority (Whether it is a Judge. Attorney General. Prosecutor. etc.) has an obligation to reopen particularly the Alisha Owen case. If my witnesses in Court on February 5, 1999 are telling the truth, then Alisha Owen is also. If Alishn Owen is LYING, as a jury said then my witnesses are lying, It appears to me to put the U.S. Attorney and Nebraska Attomey General and Judicial System on the horns of a dilemma - and failure to act would to me at least appear to be deliberate obstruction of justice at a minimum.
Respectfully,
[signature]
John W. DeCamp
DeCamp Legal Services
=====
FILED
US DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF NEBRASKA
99 F E B 22 AM 8 : 14
GARY D MCFARLAND
CLERK
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEBRASKA
PAUL A. BONACCI, 4:CV91-33037
Plaintiff,
vs. MEMORANDUM OF DECISION
LAWRENICE E. KING,
Defendant.
On February 27, 1998, I found that default judgment should be entered against the defendant Lawrence E. King in favor of the plaintiff, Paul A. Bonaccl. A trial on the issue of the damages due the plaintiff by that defendant was had on February 5, 1999.
Two counts are alleged against the defendant King in the complaint. Count V alleges a conspiracy with public officers to deprive the plaintiff of his civil rights, designed to continue to subject the plaintiff to emotional abuse and to prevent him from informing authorities of criminal conduct. Count VII charges battery, false imprisonment, infliction of emotional distress, negligence and conspiracy to deprive the plaintiff of civil rights. Between December 1980 and 1988, the complaint alleges, the defendant King continually subjected the plaintiff to repeated sexual assaults, false imprisonments, infliction of extreme emotional distress, organized and directed satanic rituals, forced the plaintiff to "scavenge" for children to be a part of the defendant King's sexual abuse and pornography ring, forced the plaintiff to engage in numerous sexual contacts with the defendant King and others and participate in deviate sexual games and masochistic orgies with other minor children. The defendant King's default has made those allegations true as to him. The issue now is the relief to be granted monetarily.
The now uncontradicted evidence is that the plaintiff has suffered much. He has suffered bums, broken fingers, beatings of the head and face and other indignities by the wrongful actions of the defendant King. In addition to the misery of going through the experiences just related over a period of eight years, the plaintiff has suffered the lingering results to the present time. He is a victim of multiple personality disorder, involving as many as fourteen distinct personalities aside from his primary personality. He has given up a desired military career and received threats on his life. He suffers from sleeplessness, has bad dreams, has difficulty in holding a job, is fearful that others are following him, fears getting killed, has depressing flashbacks, and is verbally violent on occasion, all in connection with the multiple personality disorder and caused by the wrongful activities of the defendant King.
Almost certainly the defendant King has little remaining financial resources, but a fair judgment to compensate the plaintiff is necessary. For the sixteen years since the abuse of the plaintiff began I conclude that a fair compensation for the damages he has suffered is $800,000.
A punitive award also is justified, but the amount needs to be limited because of the small effect that such a judgment would have on the defendant King, given his financial condition and his presence now in prison. I deem a punitive award of $200,000 to be adequate.
Dated February 19, 1999.
BY THE COURT
[Signature]
Warren K. Urbom
United States Senior District. Judge
=====
FILED
US DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF NEBRASKA
99 F E B 22 AM 8 : 15
GARY D MCFARLAND
CLERK
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEBRASKA
PAUL A. BONACCI, 4:CV91-3037
Plaintiff,
vs. JUDGMENT
LAWRENCE E. KING,
Defendant.
IT IS ORDERED that the plaintiff shall have judgment against the defendant Lawrence E. King in the amount of $1,000,000 and taxable court costs in accordance with the Memorandum of Decision of today, together with interest at the rate of 4.584 percent per annum.
Dated February 19, 1999.
BY THE COURT
[Signature]
Warren K. Urbom
United States Senior District Judge
=====
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEBRASKA
PAUL A. BONACCI, (4:91CV3037)
Plaintiff, vs. TRANSCRIPT
LAWRENCE E. KING, Defendants.
Hearing held before the Honorable Warren K. Urbom, Senior United States District Judge, on February 5, 1999 in Lincoln, Nebraska.
APPEARANCES:
Mr. John DeCamp
Attorney at Law
414 South 1lth Street
Lincoln, Nebraska for Plaintiff
I -N-D-E-X
WITNESS Direct Cross Redirect Recross
Noreen Gosch 5
Russell Nelson 36
Paul Bonacci 101
Denise Bonacci 155
(At 9:01, the following proceedings were held.)
THE COURT: This is the case of Paul A. Bonacci versus Lawrence E. King, 4:91CV3037. I see the plaintiff, Mr. Paul Bonacci, here with his counsel Mr. DeCamp. I do not see anyone representing Lawrence E. King. Is there anyone here representing Mr. King? I take it not. A default judgment has been entered against him. And the purpose of this proceeding is to determine the amount of damages that are to be awarded. Mr. DeCamp, you may proceed. Want to make an opening statement or not is entirely up to you. You may do that or call your witnesses as you choose.
MR. DECAMP: May it please the Court, a very, very brief opening statement. What I want to establish here today, Your Honor, if at all possible, is the entire picture or scene in which Mr. Bonacci lived and prove to this Court's satisfaction the stories he tells in his petition are in fact true and the trauma that results from those stories is in fact very real. And even, Your Honor, we would hope that the Court, after hearing some of the evidence and information today for the first time ever, would maybe even on its own initiative take some appropriate action to correct some other wrongs or launch some other investigations that may be needed, Your Honor.
THE COURT: That's not within my authority. So I can't do that. But I can award damages. And that's why we're here today.
MR. DECAMP: Yes, Your Honor. So my first witness I would call would be Noreen Gosch.
THE COURT: Come forward, please.
THE CLERK: Maam, would you state your full name and spell it, please?
THE WITNESS: Noreen Natalie Gosch.
THE CLERK: Noreen is?
THE WITNESS: Beg your pardon?
THE CLERK: Would you spell Noreen?
THE WITNESS: N-o-r-e-e-n.
THE CLERK: Natalie?
THE WITNESS: N-a-t-a-l-i-e. And Gosch, G-o-s-c-h.
THE CLERK: Noreen Natalie Gosch. Noreen, N-o-r-e-e-n, Natalie Gosch, G-o-s-c-h.
NOREEN N. GOSCH
Called as a witness, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
THE COURT: Sorry, tell me again, how do you spell your last name?
THE WITNESS: G-o-s-c-h.
THE COURT: G-o-s-c-h?
THE WITNESS: Correct.
THE COURT: Thank you. Mr. DeCamp.
MR. DECAMP: Yes, Your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DECAMP:
Q. Noreen, you arrived in Lincoln last night, is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And where is your home?
A. West Des Moines, Iowa.
Q. And how long have you lived there?
A. 28 years.
Q. And do you have family there?
A. Not any more.
Q. Did you have family there?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Who did you have as part of your family?
A. I had my children and my husband.
Q. How many children?
A. Three children. The two older children have moved away and married. My youngest son was kidnapped and as a result of a lot of ensuing problems we divorced, my ex-husband and I, and I don't know where he's at.
Q. Your son was a paperboy in Des Moines, is that right?
A. That is correct.
Q. And his name was what?
A. John David Gosch.
Q. Johnny Gosch he's typically referred to in the newspapers, is that correct?
A. Johnny Gosch, yes. He had his paper route for 13 months running. And had been an employee of the Des Moines Register.
Q. And how old was he when he was kidnapped?
A. He was 12 years old.
Q. And what year was he kidnapped?
A. September 5th, 1982.
Q. And has he been located?
A. Yes and no.
Q. Well come back to that.
A. Okay.
Q. Was the crime investigated?
A. When my son was kidnapped that morning it was my utter total shock and amazement that the law enforcement did not respond the way I had envisioned that a kidnapping would be investigated. The investigating police officer to take the initial report did not come to our home till 45 minutes after I called in my son being missing. And in the length of time that it took him to arrive I had already telephoned the district manager for the newspaper, found out the names of all the witnesses that were there that morning. Johnny was kidnapped a short distance from our home and also within a block from the paper drop site. In that short amount of time I was able to contact all the witnesses, talk to them. I found out the description of the man who was talking to him on the comer. The description of the car. And when the police officer came in the only thing he brought in was the sheet of paper to fill out for the initial report. And I began telling him everything I had learned. And he looked at me and he said, well, has your son ever run away before? I said, he's never run away. He was taken. And I have these statements. I later found out that -- well, then the police officer left and we didn't I see anybody from the police department until 3:00 o'clock that same afternoon. My call went in at 7:30 a.m. I later found out that the police did in fact contact the witnesses that I had reported I talked to but they didn't I even so much as bring a clipboard into their homes to take notes. And all the witnesses thought it was very strange since there was a little boy missing as to why the police would not even take notes as to what the witnesses had seen.
Q. Since the kidnapping occurred have you become extremely active in the issue of missing children?
A. I have become extremely active in both the avenues of missing children and also trying to find my own son and solve his case. As to why he was taken, who was responsible.
Q. Your son's picture was one of the first ones to appear, for example, on milk cartons, wasn't it?
A. Yes, the milk carton effort was started in Des Moines, Iowa by Anderson Erickson Dairy. And my son and Eugene Martin were the first two missing children to be ever put on a milk carton.
Q. Who is Eugene Martin?
A. Eugene Martin is another paper carrier from West Des Moines or from Des Moines and he was kidnapped within a short time after Johnny, less than two years.
Q. And has he been located?
A. He has not been located to my knowledge. During the course of the investigation, the first year of it, the FBI paid a visit to our home and said they would not be entering the case. The police chief just would not order things to be done. They would not bring in aerial search, they wouldn't bring in a K-9 team, they didn't do the normal things that you would do to try and rule out a murder, for instance, if there was a missing person and a body somewhere. So I contacted the National Guard and they told me that, yes, they would use their helicopters but they would charge me $600 an hour in order to do it. And that became a news item, because we did have a lot of press coverage on this story. And a TV station from Omaha offered their helicopter for free. And that's when I began working very closely with the media to assist me.
Q. And you over the years have worked closely with the media, is that correct?
A. Yes, I have. They have been most helpful. I have a great many allies within the media. I treat them fairly and they know that when they speak to me I speak the truth. I have no reason to embellish anything and therefore I've become reliable and someone they know ifthey do a story on they're not going to have to do a retraction.
Q. Back to the issue of participation in groups and with politicians that have written laws on this, have you been active in that area?
A. Yes. Within the first year after Johnny was missing, I realized that partly the reason that no one looked for Johnny except his family was because there was no law on the books in Iowa or most any other state in the country specifying that the police would have to act sooner than 72 hours. Even though we had five witnesses that could describe the car, the man and various details of the kidnapping. So I wrote the first piece of legislation which became the Johnny Gosch bill. I got a senator and a representative to sponsor the bill in 24 both houses, same version, different numbers, in 25 hopes that one would pass. The first year it went down the funnel. I started the next year again and drummed the state capitol. I absolutely, they were sick of seeing me, I was up there. So, and then I went on the national speaking circuit. And I was all over the country speaking but whenever I was in Iowa I would pass a legislative sign up sheet and I would ask people that were of voting age to sign it. And then whenever we needed assistance or pressure to be brought to bear upon a representative or a senator we could activate a telephone tree and generate at least five hundred calls into the statehouse within an hour. And that became very successful because it was an election year.
Q. Did you get some laws passed?
A. Yes. The Johnny Gosch bill was passed in 1984, signed by the governor of Iowa, Governor Branstad, on July I st. While we were there at the signing there was a lot of press, and none of us knew that within a month and 10 days that that law would be put to the test. Because Eugene Martin was taken in August, a month following the signing of the Johnny Gosch bill into law. Then Missouri, Minnesota, Illinois, many other states contacted me. I testified before their legislatures and they have all adopted a version of the Johnny Gosch bill. And it stands in many other states as the Johnny Gosch law.
Q. And have you, you stated you worked with the media in trying to promote the laws and also in helping to find Johnny, can you describe some of that?
A. I did a lot of press conferences, a lot of TV shows, whenever there was information that could be safely released on Johnny I would release it so that we could keep the story alive. You can't keep saying Johnny Gosch is missing, Johnny Gosch is missing, or any other child, you have to provide the news media with something they can broadcast that's new news. So I learned to work very closely with them. I was also on all of the talk shows. There was a Home Box Office, HBO movie done about Johnny's case. I've been very active in all facets. But I think my greatest feeling of accomplishment of actually helping to protect other children, I founded the Johnny Gosch Foundation. And the IRS put us on a restrictive two year probationary situation in which we had to prove that we were helping other children. So that's when I developed my speaking tour, the program that I presented to help parents learn what a pedophile is, what they do and how they get children to come with them or to kidnap them or molest them. And that was probably the most rewarding and successful part of it because I was able to hands on actually help other families. And I know for a fact I've helped prevent other abductions.
Q. Have you then had contact and worked with a number of families that have ended up with missing children or kidnapped children?
A. Yes, kidnapped children, murdered children. And during that same timeframe between 1982 and 84 I worked very closely with the officials in Washington and I testified before the Justice Department as to the need for monies to be appropriated for a National Center For Missing Children. Myself and several other families who had suffered the same loss, we were all gathered together and we were told to tell our story and name names of who did what and who didn't do their jobs. And I did that. And so did the other families. And then a short time later the Justice Department appropriated the first 10 million dollars for the National Center For Missing Children. And I was invited to the openings and to the White House to meet with President Reagan.
Q. Noreen, I'm going to move to a slightly different area now. During the time that Johnny has been missing from when the original kidnapping occurred until the present, have you been contacted on many occasions with offers of assistance or people who claim they have knowledge of what happened?
A. I've had a lot of people contact me with information, sightings, things that they thought might be helpful. And in each case we would have our private investigators check it out to see if it was valid or not. And a lot of people were well meaning but some of the information wasn't good and some of it was. We were able to put together what was the start of a huge jigsaw puzzle by using the information we gathered. And after each national television appearance there would always be a generation of a great many leads that would come in for to us follow. Some good, some not so good.
Q. Did you ever have bogus contacts?
A. A few. A few that just were intent on trying to bilk us out of money or some reason or other attain some acclaim for themselves by attaching themself to a nationally known case. And with that I'm referring to psychics. There are only four that I know of that I've worked with, and I've talked to 700 psychics over the years, there's only been about four that are, truly have a gift in any area. The rest of them can only spell the word. But some of the ones that can only spell the words are the ones that wanted to tag on to our case and say they have been working on the Gosch case because it was a well known case.
Q. Do you know Paul Bonacci?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Can you tell us how you came to know Paul Bonacci?
A. In 1991, I believe it was -- let me check my notes, I wrote it down -- yes, it was in 1991 and it was the spring of 1991, I was at my office and suddenly people called me on the phone and said that there was a news release that was being generated by NBC in Des Moines, Channel 13, saying that there was a young man in prison in Lincoln, Nebraska that had given information that he was part of the Johnny Gosch kidnapping. Well, immediately everyone wanted statements from me. The FBI showed up at my office, practically pinned me on the wall, wanted to know what this was all about. And I had no clue, I did not know anything about it. The whole climate of Des Moines was just crazy when this happened. Because everybody had been wanting to see Johnny's case solved. Well, Later that night I got home and I waited all night long. My husband never came home. He didn't walk in the door till 6:00 a.m. And I said, where have you been? Surely you've heard the news. And he said, yeah, I heard it. But he says, I've known about Bonacci for almost two years and I didn't tell you. And I couldn't believe it. I later found out years later that he came to Lincoln, Nebraska after Paul had confided in his attorney, you, that he had knowledge of the Gosch case. You called our home. My husband took the call, never told me. And he came to Lincoln and subsequently went to the prison but he brought another woman with him and introduced her as Noreen Gosch. Someone who masqueraded as me. And we have, you know, witnesses to prove that. Why he did this I'm not quite sure. I do know that he went to the prison to talk to Paul. At length. And then kept it from me for all that length of time. And instructed you to never call our home and to only contact him through a certain number. So when all this started to come about, and I'm digressing now back to when Bonacci surfaced in my world, which was in 1991, I went to the prison to meet him myself that fall. With a private investigator Roy Stephens. And I took along the same NBC reporter that first released the story so he could videotape everything that was said. And during that time during our visit at the prison Paul admitted to me what happened, how Johnny was kidnapped, where they took him, how he was used, where he went on from there. How he was used for pictures, pornographic pictures, many aspects of what I did not know. The TV station ran that as a series. That attracted the attention of America's Most Wanted. They came in and filmed the entire the story and all of what Paul had to say. In the mean time I was able to have a private investigator begin to check out many of the details that Paul had given me. And Paul is telling the truth. He was the first one to ever come to me and tell the truth about what happened to my son.
Q. Noreen, how do you know this isn't just one more story? Why do you believe him rather than somebody else?
A. Because we've had the time to check out many of the things that Paul told us and we found them to be true, to be accurate. Because I have interviewed other young men that have given me the very same sorry. And because I have talked to my son myself one time.
Q. When did you talk to your son?
A. March of 1997.
Q. So you knew as of March, 1997 your son was alive?
A. Right. I had begun to, between 1992 and 97 I had started to give up hope that he was alive. At that point I began to pursue more of the who did it part. The criminal aspect of it. Because I felt that there was no more news on Johnny and I wouldn't have known what he would look like because he obviously aged if he was alive. And in March, in the middle of the night there was knocking on my door. And I went to the door and I looked out and there was a young man out there. And there was someone with him, he had someone with him. I don't know that person's name, they didn't give it to me. And I let him in and we talked for a little over an hour, hour and a half. And he began telling me what had happened to him. And he told me the exact same story that Paul Bonacci had told me in prison. I know that Paul's telling the truth. And I know that my son fell victim to the very same organization that affected and almost destroyed Paul's life and the lives of many other young people.
Q. Is this the first time you've told this story publicly?
A. Yes. And that's because I'm under oath. Otherwise I never have shared that I actually talked to my son.
Q. I understand. Do you have any how do you know it was your son?
A. My son has a very large birthmark on his chest. And I asked to see it.
Q. And was it there?
A. Yes. Yes, it was my son.
Q. Did you have any other reason to know it was your son?
A. He looks like my son. He was able to recall family events. He was able to recall things about his brother and sister growing up that not another soul would know. It was my son. He was, he told me that he was not able to talk freely in the sense that he could come out with his story because there are people that would want to see him dead. And he said, mom, do something. He says, I know about all that you've been doing. I know what you've done in this country. Now he said, please, help me. So I can have a life and the other kids can have a life. And I didn't know where to start at first. Because no one believed us. No one believed Paul at that time. People wanted to forget about Johnny Gosch because it was an embarrassment to Des Moines, Iowa, it was an embarrassment to the police, the FBI, all of them that basically didn't do their jobs. And it was embarrassing for them to see a mother still out there trying to find their son and working three jobs to keep it going financially. And the exact law enforcement agencies you would expect to help didn't. They gave up on it.
Q. Now, when Paul and you met and you videotaped and he described various details, did he tell you he was a young boy at that time who was the one to attract Johnny then for the kidnapping?
A. Yes, he did. When we first met and we were seated at the table at the prison, Paul took one look at me and as soon as he knew who I was he broke down and started to cry. And he said, I'm so sorry. I'm so very sorry. And I looked at him and said, I don I blame you. I don I hate you. Just tell me what happened. And then that's how he told me of the kidnap plan and how it evolved and where he was on the street to attract Johnny to the car. And then what happened to Johnny as far as being drugged and transported to another area. And then he described the events of the first time Johnny was molested. And, yes, it was hard to hear. But at the same time for the first time I was hearing truth. And it was coming from a young man who took such a big step to go public to help me.
He didn't have to do that. He could have gone on with his life and died with that secret. And Paul made the moral decision to go forward to help me --
Q. Do you know how –
A. -- to help other kids.
Q. Do you know how old Paul was at this time of this?
A. At the time of the kidnapping I believe Paul would have only been about 14 or t5(sic) years old. He was very young himself. He was only a couple of years older than Johnny.
Q. I just found that out. He was used to attract the boy?
A. Yes, he was.
Q. Did he have a name for how they operated this system, scavenger hunt or whatever?
A. Well, he used terms like that. And then he described the car that they used and the driver of the car, a man by the name of Emilio who has a dozen aliases for last names, always drove around with at least license plates in his trunk and would put a different license plate on to always throw off police or anybody that might be trying to record who, what car was at a certain site. Paul also told me that they stayed in a motel not far from the kidnap site the night before the kidnapping, somewhere probably Des Moines or West Des Moines.
Q. When you met with your son did he verify these things?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Before you met with your son were you satisfied or convinced that Paul was telling the truth because of your independent investigation?
A. Yes. I believed Paul right from the beginning. From the day at the prison when the man talked to me. And then in the ensuing months I was able to verify much of what he said. So then it became completely confirmed in my mind. And then when America's Most Wanted entered the case their investigators also worked with our private investigator. And John Walsh of America's Most Wanted happens to be a very good friend of mine, and he told me that he saw this as probably the only real break we've ever had in your case.
Q. Now, America's Most Wanted, as I recall, did a number of programs on this?
A. Yes. They did the first initial one in November of 1992, it aired shortly before Thanksgiving. And at that time it broke the phone bank. They had more phone calls generated in coming in off of this case than they've ever had. Then they did two more follow-up stories in months to come.
Q. Is it not true that America's Most Wanted as part of their programs put out information requesting certain people to come forward if they had information on this?
A. Yes, they did. During the course of the story being relayed they asked that if there were any other young victims of this type of organization that would compare with what Paul had said, would they please come forward?
Q. Did Paul describe to America's Most Wanted a particular type of identifying mark some of the kids had?
A. Yes. We, at that time Paul described it and it was shown on America's Most Wanted. The shape of the mark that they put on the boys, a brand, if you will, they branded them like cattle.
Q. And where did they put this brand?
A. Some had it on their shoulders, some on their hips. Some on their calves of their legs.
Q. And if you know, do you know if in fact some children came forward with that particular brand and contacted America's Most Wanted?
A. Yes. About a month and a half after that show aired I received a letter from a young man that said his name was Jimmy and he related in his letter similar experience of everything that Paul went through. And he continued to write to me. I had no way of contacting him. But in my, finally he called me on the telephone and I said, can we meet somewhere, would you come to Des Moines? III meet you somewhere else if you feel safer. And that went on for about two months. And then in the middle of the night one night the phone rang. And there was a blizzard going on, it was very cold and snowing. And this voice said, well, I'm here. And I said, who's here? He said, it's Jimmy and I'm in Osceola, come in on the train. That's where our nearest train station is. And he said on the way here someone stole my coat. So I went down to the storage room and I got some warm clothes and I got in the car and I drove to Osceola in the middle of the night to meet Jimmy. And we sat until dawn in a little restaurant that stayed open all night. That's when he poured out his whole story of what had happened to him. He had knowledge of Johnny. And the activities that the boys were all involved in. That corresponded to what Paul had said but it picked up the years; that Paul was in prison and went up to present day.
Q. And is it not true that he had the brand?
A. Jimmy had the brand on the calf of his leg.
Q. And is it not true that you had America's Most Wanted film that?
A. Yes. America's Most Wanted interviewed and filmed the brand on Jimmy. His face was blocked out because he was terrified of having his face shown in the country. Then -
Q. And is it not true that they in fact had a doctor examine him to verify this occurred years before and not put on recently?
A. Yes. That was one thing that's determined, that it was an old brand that had been there for a long, long time, that it was not a new brand that he applied just to come in and fake a story. One thing I'd like to mention if I may, during Jimmy's story, he told me that Johnny and several other kids had broken away from the main group that had been using them and abusing them. That they had stolen a car in which they traveled to get away. And Jimmy took them to his father's home. And his father did not know they were in the basement. And Jimmy was bringing food down to them. And one night Jimmy's father noticed a lot of food was missing out of the refrigerator so he followed his son to the basement and found my son and two other boys in the basement. He still did not know names. And so Jimmy gave me his father's phone number. And his name is Richard Gibson in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And I called him. He's an accountant, a CPA, very nice man. He told me that he gave shelter and food and warm clothes to my son for a period of three days. And then the boys moved on. And it was later when he saw another rebroadcast of the America's Most Wanted that he realized that the boy, one of the boys in his basement was in fact my son.
Q. You understand this is, all sounds like an incredible tale?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. Do you have any other compelling reasons to suggest that I or anyone of the general public should believe this story?
A. The only thing that I can add to that is that sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. This really did happen. There was a giant cover-up. There's reasons why they did not investigate Johnny's case because it would have led to other bigger things. And the people that would say they don't believe it better hope to hell that no one ever takes their child for the same reason because they will be in the same boat I am. Dedicating better part of two decades trying to find their child.
Q. It's my recollection, though I wasn't physically present, it's my recollection that America's Most Wanted on the day that Paul Bonacci got out of jail took him and went on a trip where he claimed certain things would be if they go and look in different states, four or five state regions.
A. They went on about five state region. One of the states they were in was Colorado and they did in fact find some of the locations where they kept the kids and places where they would put the kids in the basement. And lock them up so they couldn't get out. And so that if they had visitors to the upper level of the house no one would know the kids were down there. There's one other thing I would like to add when we're talking about the America's Most Wanted story, just prior to the America's Most Wanted story going on the air, we're talking within a week or two of air time, the FBI in Quantico, Virginia contacted America's Most Wanted and told them to kill the story. They did not want the Johnny Gosch story broadcast. And John Walsh, the only reason the story went on is because John Walsh is a personal friend and he stood up to them and he said this story goes. This woman does notlie. I've known her for years. We are going with the story. You can fire me afterwards, we're doing the story. And they did the story. But the FBI tried to kill this story.
Q. Do you know why?
A. Well, of course. It would have opened up the biggest scandal to the United States, bigger than the Iran-Contra story. Bigger than President Clinton's infidelities.
Q. Isn't that story going to be aired at two specials very shortly?
A. Yes. I have a one hour special coming up with the national network. We have investigated, we have talked to so far 35 victims of this said organization that took my son and is responsible for what happened to Paul and they can verify everything that has happened. And this story will be broadcast in the next few months. We're still working on some of the details.
Q. ABC News?
A. Yes. And it is our hope following this story that we will be able to get senate hearings, because it goes that high and that deep.
Q. Did you want to tell more about what it involves?
A. What this story --
Q. Under oath?
A. -- involves is an elaborate function, I will say, that was an offshoot of a government program. The MK Ultra program was developed in the 1950s by the CIA. It was used to help spy on other countries during the cold War because they felt that the other countries were spying on us. It was very successful. They could do it very well. Well, then there was a man by the name of Michael Aquino. He was in the military. He had top Pentagon clearance. He was a pedophile. He was a Satanist. He's founded the Temple of Set. And he was also a very close friend of Anton LaVey. The two of them were very active in ritualistic sexual abuse. And they deferred funding from this government program to use this experimentation upon children. Where they deliberately split off the personalities of these children into multiples so that when they're questioned or put under oath or questioned under lie detector, that unless the operator knows how to question a multiple personality disorder they turn up with no evidence. They use these kids to sexually compromise politicians or anyone else they wish to have control of. This sounds so far out and so bizarre I had trouble accepting it in the beginning myself until I was presented with the data. We have the proof. In black and white. And ABC has been working on this story for over a year. They do not pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into a story that is fake. They have a reputation at stake. When I came to them with my story and told them Johnny was alive and they began investigating they had no idea that they were going to step into this whole other realm of why these kids were taken. They were not just taken to be used by some pedophile, they were taken to be used by professional pedophiles. People that have the money to buy what they want, take the kids wherever they want. And by splitting the children's personalities they could then train each one of the personalities to do a different function. And the rest of the personalities within that host personality would not be aware of it or remember it.
Q. You know, don't you, that Colonel Aquino was drummed out of the military?
A. He was. But then there were no charges actually filed against him that stuck. He was drummed out but that was about it.
Q. Well, that's --
A. I know that Michael Aquino has been in Iowa. I know that Michael Aquino has been to Offutt Air Force Base. I know that he has had contact with many of these children.
Q. Noreen --
A. I've had the death threats as I spoke out over the years and up till recently, I've had death threats. I've had many things happen to me. And I've had people call me and say drop this search for your son or you'll be a dead woman.
Q. You realize this is an incredible tale?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Difficult to believe.
A. Uh-huh.
Q. Some would say impossible.
A. They might.
Q. But you believe it's true?
A. I know it's true.
Q. And you believe Paul is telling the truth?
A. I believe Paul's telling the truth. And I believe my own son was telling me the truth when he came to my home and poured his heart out as to what happened to him and said mom, do something. Help us all. Help us bring this story out. Nobody believes us. The suffering that the families have gone through, I'm one of the lucky ones. I'm one of the fortunate ones that have survived with some degree of physical health intact. Emotional balance. I've seen so many of the parents and the siblings of these missing and abused children take their own life. Disappear into the drug world. Any kind of substance abuse. Broken homes. Sexual and physical abuse of other children in the family. Because of the rage that comes up. The devastation goes on and on and on from what these people have done.
Q. Noreen, I have no further questions. You have any other thing you want to say?
A. I do, I have one other thing to say.
Q. Go ahead.
A. June 13th of 1984 1 was contacted by a man in Des Moines, Iowa by the name of Sam Soda. He was a private investigator. He told me, and I taped the conversation, he told me that there was going to be a second kidnapping in Des Moines. That it would be the second weekend of August, it would be another paperboy, and that it was already in the works. And I asked him why he was telling me and he said, well, you seem like the type that would do something about it. So I took my tape recording and I went to the Des Moines Police Department. They laughed at me. They wouldn't even listen to my tape. So then I went to the TV stations and I played it for them. As a matter of record. So it was on record. The other person I told was Karen Bums with ABC 20-20, because 20-20 came to Des Moines to do our story. The second weekend in August came and, sure enough, Eugene Martin was kidnapped. From the south side of Des Moines just as the informant had said. That man still walks the streets. The Des Moines police were not all that interested in why he was giving me the information. What they did to me instead was put a gag order on me so I couldn't talk about it at that time. They had forewarning that Eugene Martin was going to be taken and they did nothing. It was a planned kidnapping just as my own son's was.
MR. DECAMP: No further questions, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may stand down. All right, Mr. DeCamp.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, the next witness I would like to call is a man named Russell Nelson.
THE COURT: Mr. Nelson.
THE CLERK: Sir, would you state your full name and spell your last name, please?
THE WITNESS: Russell E. or Eric Nelson R-u-s-s-e-l-l, E-r-i-c, N-e-l-s-o-n.
THE CLERK: Russell Eric Nelson, N-e-l-s-o-n.
RUSSELL NELSON
Called as a witness, being duly sworn, testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. DECAMP:
Q. Russell, may I call you by your nickname?
A. Yes.
Q. What is your nickname?
A. Rusty.
Q. Rusty Nelson. Where were you born?
A. Newman Grove, excuse me, Newman Grove, Nebraska.
Q. Where did you grow up?
A. Newman Grove, Nebraska.
Q. Until what age?
A. Just before my 18th birthday I moved to Kansas City to go to school.
Q. How old are you now?
A. 35.
Q. Where do you live now?
A. Well, right now Portland, Oregon.
Q. And is it true that you came here on a travel pass issued by the parole or probation authorities in Oregon?
A. Yes.
Q. And when did you arrive here?
A. Late yesterday afternoon, yesterday evening.
Q. And did you come back here at my request to testify?
A. Pretty much between that and the fact that I wanted it brought out.
Q. I want to take you back to when you were in Nebraska. Did you ever hear of anything called the Franklin Credit Union?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Did you know people associated with it?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you ever read a section of an affidavit or an affidavit from Police Chief Wadman -- do you know who Police Chief Wadman is?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Who is he?
A. He's police chief Omaha, Nebraska, or was.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, if I could read a section of an affidavit with your permission, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Are you aware, Rusty, that a number of the young people involved in the Franklin scandal -- have you heard of the Franklin scandal?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. A number of the young people involved there, including Paul Bonacci, Alisha Owen, Troy Boner, a number of children all identified you or a person named Rusty Nelson who was involved with Larry King and was a photographer, are you aware of that?
A. Yes.
Q. I'm going to read you a statement that Police Chief Wadman made under oath, to the Nebraska senate committee, legislative committee, looking into matters there. Police Chief Wadman said: We had a situation where we were advised that there was a possibility of child pornography involving --no, it came in as child pornography case. What happened is that there was a photographer who was taking photographs of young women, and in the course of that set of circumstances, a mother with her daughter called and filed a complaint with the police department, and the complaint involved a situation where her daughter was approached by the photographer to be photographed, and the photographer extended an invitation to this young woman's mother to come with her. They went to studio, photographs were taken. In the course of that the mother became concerned over the photographs and some of the photographs that she observed at that photo studio and then filed a complaint of concern that this was a possible pornographic situation. We investigated -- we investigated it, found the photographer to be, you know, legitimately involved in the photography business, legitimately involved in conducting the photographs and getting signed releases and having a photography studio and so on. The only involvement is that this individual had subleased his studio or apartment from Larry King, and that was the extent of our investigation into pornography related activities involving Mr. King in any direct way. This was in response the legislature questioning him about whether you were in any way involved with Larry King. Would that be an accurate statement there by Chief Wadman?
A. I believe so.
Q. Did you in fact not function as a private photographer for Larry King?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Mr. Wadman stated the only contact you had was renting an apartment from him?
A. I didn't rent the apartment, it was given to me.
Q. Who was it given to you by?
A. Larry King. I had free reign for a lot of things for Larry's.
Q. How did you come to know Larry King?
A. I was taking pictures at a bar called Max's on 79th Street after drag shows. It was something to do that wouldn't cost me much if any money to go in to do. It was fun. One of the people there, name was Ron, trying to remember what his last name was, escapes me now. I had gotten to know pretty much everybody who was the regulars and I had said to him that, you know, I was having some financial problems and, you know, I needed to- find a decent job, this and that and the next thing. And he goes, well, I know somebody who probably be able to use a good photographer, III talk to him, see what we can set up for you the next day or two. All of a sudden here's Larry King, I had no idea who he was, this, that and the next thing. And so I went and next thing I know I'm on a private jet to Washington, D. C. And, you know, just being lavishly spent money on, clothes.
Q. How old were you at the time?
A. Oh, probably 24, 25.
Q. Okay.
A. If even that. 23 maybe. But it was an interesting ordeal. And I set in Larry's office at the credit union, set in the meetings he'd have with the people who come in private meetings. Seen him make payoffs to people. Very quietly.
Q. Did you, did you function as a photographer for Larry?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. And what did you photograph?
A. Things like the opening of Prince's Palace.
THE COURT: Sorry, the opening of what?
A. Prince's Palace, it was a restaurant, a jazz bar that he started. I went out and took pictures at his mansion on Embassy Row, some of the parties he had out there, things like that. He kept wanting me to do porn, kiddie porn, gay porn. I wanted to part of it. And he went to the extent of insisting on where I wear certain clothes, my hair had to be a certain way. They went as far as to take me out, supposedly it was Nancy Reagan's hair dresser done my hair. Permed it, everything, totally changed my appearance. And I happened to come across a man who was also a photographer for Larry. Whose appearance was almost identical to mine except he was a couple inches shorter, probably three, four inches shorter than I was and about the same build. He was at Prince's Palace, I believe on opening night. And it was just by fluke that I seen him. And what I basically come to gather was I was being run as the front man for the fall and this other person was doing the actual hard core kiddie porn, things like that. It was one of these things I tried and tried to find out who the man was. And --
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Who which man was?
A. The photographer. That I had seen. And, you know, I'd heard there was somebody passing themselves off as myself as Rusty Nelson. You know. The other thing was, is when I first went to work for Larry King I had two friends that were very, very strongly advised me against it. They wouldn't tell me what was what. They were shocked that I was even associated with him.
Q. You used a phrase when I went to work for Larry King. So then you were actually --
A. He put me to work as a waiter. And it was at Prince's Palace. So I would have a legitimate job was his idea behind it. And then --
Q. But he provided you the apartment?
A. He provided me apartment, clothes, food.
Q. Did you in fact spend a lot of time inside the Franklin Credit Union with him?
A. Oh yes.
Q. Where?
A. Well, he had a bedroom downstairs. The office. I had pretty much free run of it a lot of times.
Q. Are you aware of the fact that your existence before the legislative committee was effectively denied by various witnesses., investigator for the state and others?
A. Oh yes, I was told to disappear.
Q. Who told you to disappear?
A. Names, I don't know actually. It was FBI agents.
Q. Why would FBI agents tell you to disappear?
A. I believe they were the ones that were also involved with this. I think that-- I haven't kept up on the case. Basically vanished since then. From what I've understood they were found to be part of it. And there were legal repercussions, you know, lost their jobs. I think they may be in prison also because of this. This is what I've heard. I haven't followed it exactly myself, believe that's true.
Q. You said you functioned as a photographer for Larry King. Did you take a lot-of pictures during that time?
A. Oh yes.
Q. What happened to the pictures?
A. Most of the time he would take the film, when we'd get done with it he'd insist on having the film. Occasionally I would slip in a roll of my own film. And get a picture of him here, there, the next place. With certain people. Some of it was just shot from the hip. You know, basically don't look exactly what you're getting but point it in that direction and get a picture of some of the people that were there. Other things I was there to take pictures and told to get specific people. And if these two people got together to make sure to get a picture of them and try not to be noticed in doing it. Basically become a wall flower. Just fade back in the woodwork, just watch who's who and what's what and don't remember anything.
Q. Where were these places where you were doing these pictures?
A. The mansion on Embassy Row. The penthouse at Twin Towers. Larry's home. The Max, there are various places.
Q. Who was at these parties?
A. Politicians, dignitaries, wealthy business people. Young people. Larry, as far as I could gather, I left when I started putting the pieces together, you know, realizing that there were two sets of books. There were very, various discrepancies in the credit union. And the fact that he obviously was into pimping gay prostitutes and children to, basically for influence purposes. Whether it be politicians or whatever. He had extreme pull in the national Republican convention. There was one day where we were on a plane and he had a problem. And he couldn't get Wadman to work it out. Couldn't get anybody here to work it out. He placed a call, directly to Ronald Reagan. And --
THE COURT: What? I didn't understand.
A. He placed a call directly to Ronald Reagan. And I set my, set next to him while it was going on. The voice that I could hear through the tele -- you know, from sitting by the telephone, was that of President Reagan.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) That sounds like a fantastic tale, don't you think?
A. Yes.
Q. Your pictures, whatever happened to them?
A. Well, Larry King has a lot of them. From this point in time. There are 27 apple boxes full. In Oregon the State Patrol has them. I've tried and tried to get them returned. Have not been able to. There are additional pictures that were just recently taken from me that there's about at least one full apple box, probably another half more plus. That I believe the Portland police or the sheriff's department, Multnomah County in Oregon has that. They confiscated those from me when I was stopped for supposedly a broken tail light. And then arrested for parole violation about three months ago. That was on November 4th of last year. One of the pictures that may be in those is of Johnny Gosch.
Q. How would you happen to come across a Johnny Gosch picture?
A. He was pointed out to me in Portland.
Q. Fairly recently or a long time ago, when?
A. Be between probably August and October of this year, I mean this last year of 98.
Q. The pictures that were seized by Portland, Oregon State Patrol, are they still in existence?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Are you aware of the fact that I first learned of these pictures because I was contacted by the state patrol of Oregon because they found a copy of my book in your possessions when they arrested you?
A. That was Detective Rader I believe.
Q. That's correct.
A. And because of that supposedly he's left Multnomah Sheriff's Department or changed jobs, his name was on the receipt along with a Detective Pogge, I believe it was. And they've just been playing the bureaucratic pass the buck and they say, well, because he was the one behind it he has to sign it off for you to get it. Okay. I was arrested for taking pictures of a minor supposedly. Nude pictures. Something I would not do. Because, you know, make sure they are of legal age, they sign release, whenever possible I even have them notarized. Check IDs, everything. They could not find a single picture of this person that I had taken. The situation where I was at, the lawyer that I had, Ron Fishback, who was appointed to me, found out that the Franklin deal was in -- the Franklin Credit Union was involved in this. At first it didn't register to him what it was. And he was all gung ho to get me off and everything. And upon his checking into it he got with me and his attitude had totally changed night and day, somebody had obviously gotten to him. And then as far pictures and things like that, I end up having to put a complaint against him. We ended up going through, we were able to get a lawyer arranged for, I guess John DeCamp, and went on national radio. And there was a lawyer or a newspaper called the Oregon Observer that would provide me with attorney. The attorney came in, oh, yeah, he's gung ho. Well get this taken care of, no problem. Next thing I know, attorney's coming up, he says, well, we're going to take, want you to take a plea bargain because you've got all the time in, I've been in 18 and a half months on a 13 month sentence. You need to get this over with. Get it done with. Furthermore, if you do not do this and do this immediately at this next court session the district attorney has told him that they would drag this out another four to six years in court and I would remain in jail. At that point in time Judge Nely Johnson had ordered that I had been released. I believe they call it closed supervision. And I had found a job, place to live, everything. And was starting to get back into society after being incarcerated. And I just wanted to have it over with. So I took it.
Q. Going back to, going back to your time in --
A. Oh, one other thing, John.
Q. Go ahead.
A. Yeah. The attorney that they had appointed to me, I mean John was able to come up with, his name is Brian Joyce, we have not been able to locate him since last summer at all. I mean, that's just basically vanished. As far as the Portland Observer, I've been trying to call him, have not been able to, the last phone book that was published that I had seen, while I was in jail they were delivered, it wasn't even listed in the listings for a phone number any more. And it was the year before. I don I know what's actually happening in that situation. But -- you know, it's hard to say. The way this has all been unraveled.
Q. Do you know that I was called by the detective out there when they seized the pictures and they found my book there?
A. Yes.
Q. You know that I traveled out and he gave me permission to go through some of those 27 boxes.
A. Yes.
Q. Are you aware of that?
A. Yes.
Q. And I presume you know what's in those boxes but --
A. Oh, I used to.
Q. I presume you know much of the material with detailed diaries --
A. Yes.
Q. -- and pictures go back to the time when you were with Larry King, are you aware of that?
A. There should have been some in there. They still exist I would probably be surprised, but I would expect they should have been there. They were when I left Portland, I was moving back to Nebraska.
Q. How many pictures would you estimate there are? I only saw a small fraction, to be honest with you.
A. In all I probably had a few hundred of Larry King's that I had personally.
Q. I was going to say, I saw pictures then it looked to me to total somewhere between 10 and 20,000 maybe. Negatives, the pictures.
A. Oh, there would have been way more than that. There was, there should have been 108,000 slides is what I had in that van when I left Portland. As for pictures, there probably was 20, 30,000 prints and negatives.
Q. And you knew I requested the court out there preserve that evidence?
A. Yes.
Q. So it could at some day in some way get back here to Nebraska?
A. Actually it was supposed to have been returned to you.
Q. Yeah. Well, that's never occurred. But anyway. Those pictures and your diaries are in that material, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And those diaries –
A. Most of them.
Q. -- detailed various things dating back to when you were in Nebraska with Larry King, is that correct?
A. Yes. There should be in there along with others that I have –
Q. These pictures would then documents or verify or prove your association, relationship with Larry King or working with him?
A. Yes.
Q. The existence of some of the young people back then, is that correct?
A. I believe so.
Q. Did you spend a lot of time in Larry King's office?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. When I say Larry King's office –
A. At the credit union.
Q. In Larry King's personal office or just the credit union?
A. His personal office.
Q. What were you doing there?
A. Basically I was told to sit there and look pretty. I was, the biggest thing was to keep quiet, you didn't I see anything, but if we need you to do something you're there. You know, it was, it was somewhat like an assistant, I guess. It was, I got the feeling that I was being groomed, that's what obviously it was. He, when I first met him he saw me, yeah, this, you'll be perfect for this and that and the next thing. Next thing he goes, you look like you just stepped out of Good Will. You're going to be with me you got to have decent clothes. He took me down, I believe it was Landon's, underneath the Red Lion there's a store called Landon's men's wear and brought me in and just basically bought a new set of clothes for me. And it wasn't I anything cheap at all. It was very expensive things. And, you know, he, it was basically like that from then on. We go on shopping trips, Minneapolis, New York and things like that. And he'd say, okay, this, this and that. And sometimes he'd buy the clothes, other times he'd have people that also worked with him would, basically he'd tell them, okay, here's my credit card, go out and make him look good.
And, you know, that was it. He'd go -- there's one day we went to Minneapolis and then believe it was Presbyterian church had a resort that we went out. He was trying to get some money or something like that. You know, reissue some certificates of deposit. And he'd made it a point that I was all dressed up, he said, I want you to look like a cowboy tonight. And then we went to there and then he introduced me to a few people there. He, the way I could make it out from what he was doing was basically going into these organizations, selling them certificates of deposit that were bogus. And they were making out the checks to the Franklin Credit Union to a numbered account or something I believe.
Q. You're aware of the fact that Larry King was convicted of doing those very things and he's serving a sentence in prison at this very time, right?
A. I knew he was in prison, didn't know what they actually got him convicted of.
Q. I want to talk about some other aspects of Larry King's conduct. Which were never dealt with, at least in a courtroom. That has to do with some of the things you brought up on child pornography, so on, so forth. Was he involved in having parties, for example, where children were brought in and used, or young people?
A. Oh, yes. Him and Alan Baer.
Q. Who?
A. Alan Baer.
Q. Where were these parties?
A. Lot of times they'd be in Alan Baer's home out in Regency Park. There were some he had a catering company, trying to think. I can't remember the exact address on it. It was in north Portland. He used to bring people down to the bedroom in the Franklin Credit Union and for his -- he'd have somebody come in, they'd go downstairs for the afternoon or something for a quickie. He'd have them up at the penthouse, his house in Embassy Row. It was just basically anywhere Larry went there was party to follow him. He always had an entourage with him. It was rare to see him without at least half a dozen or dozen people dragging behind.
Q. Were there some at the Twin Towers?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Did you attend those?
A. He wanted me to. I didn't want much of any part of it. So whenever I seen something like that was happening I tried to avoid it like the plague.
Q. All of the young people identified, quote, a Rusty Nelson, described you, much shorter beard. Where would they have seen you?
A. Well, he kept me rather prominent, you know, as I was with him, always had a camera with me.
Q. Did you travel with him?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Travel where?
A. New York, Washington, D. C., Minneapolis, Chicago, you know, all over. Just wherever he wanted me. He'd call me up, might be midnight, say be ready to leave on the plane at 5:00 o'clock or 7:00 o'clock, whatever. Meet me down at Sky Harbor. He'd have a private jet waiting.
Q. Do you think people really believed that?
A. No. That's why made sure to take a couple pictures now and then.
Q. Do you recognize this --
MR. DECAMP: May I approach the bench, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Do you recognize this?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. When was the first time you saw it?
A. Well, I haven't seen it for half a dozen years plus. It was seen last night.
Q. Where did you see?
A. Your office.
Q. Do you know how I got it?
A. You got it from the sheriffs department in Nebraska City.
Q. That's correct.
A. Where they got it from I have a good idea but I'm still trying to nail it down exactly.
Q. Their information to me, as I told you, was that it was mailed to them anonymously and the sheriff in Nebraska City called me and said sounds like something of that Franklin stuff and asked me to come pick it up.
A. Yeah. And where –
Q. Did you look at it?
A. Oh yes.
MR. DECAMP: May I open it, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) What's in here?
A. Pictures.
Q. How did these pictures, where did they come from?
A. Some of these pictures are from back in the time of the Franklin Credit Union. I worked for Larry King. For instance, this one was one that was taken at The Max. One of the Sunday night parties. I believe this was one of the male strippers that Larry had arranged for. He arranged for certain things like La Cage follies to come in, things like that. He would make special arrangements just to get these people to come in so he could have a special night or party or whatever.
Q. What about these two pictures, do you recognize them?
A. That's Larry King at, it's a black history museum in Harlem in New York City. He supposedly contributed considerably to. It was pretty much brand new building, they just dedicated it right before we had gotten there.
Q. What about this one?
A. That's inside his mansion on Embassy Row in Washington, D. C.
Q. Larry King's place?
A. Yes.
Q. You were there?
A. Yes.
Q. With him?
A. Yes.
Q. For what?
A. Oh, everything from going out one day to take pictures of flower garden to going out taking pictures of parties. Going out, he'd go around the town, there would be certain people he'd stop and pick up, take them out for supper or, you know, they would go out and just short meetings, things like that. A lot of times he would dismiss the rest of the entourage, it was just Larry and myself. We'd go out sometimes, pick up person here, there, they'd get in limousine, we drive around, they talk for a little bit. Usually in hushed tones. Sometimes I could make out what was being said. Other times I couldn't. And always I was told to forget that I had seen whoever it was. And if I tried to find out who they were I was usually admonished from doing such. If I did know who they were it was basically for the most part I wasn't to address that person or I wasn't to remember that person. If I had pictures of anything like that Larry always insisted on having the film. At times when I was out in Washington occasionally I would slip an extra roll of film in, get a couple of pictures and throw it in an envelope and mail it home. So --
Q. Are there additional pictures of your association, relationship with Larry King and your trips here?
A. Okay. This is one of the private jets we flew on, two of the limousines, believe that was the Dulles airport when we went to Washington, D.C. I believe, that's inside the jet. That's inside the house again, that's Larry King again. Flower garden. Some of the pictures we took while we were out and around in limousine, Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial, Washington. This is a theater near the black history museum in Harlem. I believe this was taken in New York City, it could have been Washington, D. C. Larry King, Dr. Waterman, the lady I believe was Larry's cousin, she was an attorney for him at the credit union. And the two guys were basically some of Larry's boyfriends that he kept in his entourage. Can I remember their names right offhand. There's closer picture of one of the boyfriends. These, I believe, are pictures from New York City from in the limousine. Some of the different hotels, the cathedral and things like that. We'd went, that trip he'd stopped in a jewelry store to get a very expensive watch if I remember right. It was extremely expensive Rolex.
Q. Rusty, Chief Wadman testified, of course, as you well know, that the only contact you had with Larry King was you rented an apartment from him. In his building or something like that.
A. Yes.
Q. My question to you, did Chief Wadman have very good reason to know that was not true?
A. Oh, yes, he did.
Q. Did Chief Wadman have, go ahead, what are some of the reasons he would have had to know that was not true?
A. Larry basically had him under his thumb. There was one instance where we were downtown Omaha, one of the side streets, I had had a little bit of problem, the police had been up to my door and I was up at the Twin Towers. And they had come in to check to see if I had a photography studio. The officer just basically came to the door, that was about it, saw that I had it, I had a model release and left. And I was shook. And I had mentioned it to Larry. And he goes, well, well just take care of that. And shortly thereafter we were down on one of the side streets downtown and I was in the back seat of his white Mercedes and he pulls into the side street, man gets in, and I had been told at one time earlier that this was Chief Wadman. And Larry had handed him a small manila envelope filled with hundred dollars bills, a stack about an inch and a half, two inches thick. And basically said this will just take care of everything. And he told me then that my problems were over. And at that point I knew there was some real big problems. And I basically just, you know, shortly after that disappeared. I knew that there with two sets of books at the credit union. I knew that his accountant was pulling something. Larry had mentioned he'd paid his accountant a million dollars. And for this he could make anything look like it was right. And these were just things, bits and pieces along the way that Larry would let slip or things that I would notice. One trip to Minneapolis we stayed, I believe it was at the Ritz, and we had the presidential suite. Larry had me stay with him that night. And early in the morning a man came to the door and Larry had a briefcase, this man came in and he'd open it up and it was filled with bearer bonds.
THE COURT: What?
A. Bearer bonds. You know, pay to the order of bearer. And he had just basically given it to him. There was some cash in there. And I couldn't quite get the gist of what was what. And in that case he referred to the man as colonel and that was all, all that was said. So, you know, it's Larry had some interesting things. I believe he had some association with the Contra ordeal. That's financing it or whatever.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Rusty, you say you got disenamored or nervous or scared, they said it was time to leave, did you do anything to protect yourself, any documentation of what was doing on, did you tape anything?
A. Oh yeah. Yeah, I had. Throughout the time I was in Franklin occasionally Id have a chance to get ahold of a computer disk and copy it. Photocopies of various ledgers and things that I knew where Larry had set aside from what they should have been. And I would at times sneak a piece of paper out to the copier, get it back and, you know, take the photocopy or send it some place to where hopefully it was safe. And make tape recordings, I usually kept a little tape recorder in my pocket to make notes. And occasionally I would turn it on if I felt something was rather suspicious and then I would secrete the tape out somehow, you know, to where it would be available hopefully.
Q. What did you do with the tapes?
A. Well, I've tried to hold on to them as long as I could. Over the years I had a storage shed in Albuquerque and it was broken into. Completely emptied. I lived with a cousin, some of the stuff had been taken from me there. I'd had a roommate situation where I lost many things up in Taos, New Mexico. Some of the things I was able to told on to. Other things were taken from me by supposedly FBI agents. That has come to search my mom's house, my house. And one set of agents was the ones I mentioned earlier. About ultimately getting into trouble for being associated with it. When they came out to visit me they said you can have a lawyer but it wouldn't be wise if you had one here. Because if you bring a lawyer into questioning like this you are pretty much telling us that you're already guilty and you're just trying to fend for, fend for yourself. But if you just go into it and answer whatever we want without calling a lawyer you're better off cause you're more apt to be truthful and we know that you're not going to be lying to us. They came in, they searched the house. I live on a farm, they didn't touch any of the outside buildings, the barns, anything like that. They didn't even so much as go upstairs in my house. They tore apart the bottom part big time. They took some evidence from me at that time. I did have some other kept back.
Q. Did you hide some audio tapes?
A. Yes.
Q. Where?
A I had some with me. I had some that I gave to
Gary Caradori. That was very shortly before his death.
Q. Well get to that in a minute. Did you hide any at your place?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. In Nebraska?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know what happened to them?
A. I believe you guys actually found some.
Q. Your brother found them, didn't I he?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know what he did with them?
A. I think he gave them to you.
Q. Do you recognize these things right here? This your writing on here?
A. I recognize the tapes. They're tapes that I had. Some of the writing is mine.
Q. Would the tapes include audio of incidents and events and things with Larry King?
A. They very well could. I think so.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, Id like to introduce these into evidence.
THE COURT: All right. Are they –
MR. DECAMP: I have not listened to them all. For the record, I have not listened to them. I do know there's some things I wanted to get them to the U. S. Attorney and basically they told me indirectly that Franklin was over and they wanted no part of it.
THE COURT: Well, I guess I need to know why you're offering them here.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, I think they will validate that Rusty Nelson was very close to Larry King, involved with him, listened to him, observed his parties, listened to planning of things even including one, if one believes the tape, eliminating people that caused problems.
THE WITNESS: Which he does.
THE COURT: All right. The clerk will mark it. Why don't you just have the whole -- the clerk can mark the sack and that will just be Exhibit 1.
THE CLERK: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. Exhibit 1 is received.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Rusty, when did you leave Nebraska?
A. Which time?
Q. When did you leave Nebraska when you left Larry King? I don't know what to even ask I guess because I want to find out when you left.
A. Okay. I left Larry King, it would have, they got raided in November. I left I believe in May or June prior to that. Cause I knew something was wrong. I wanted no part of it. Did not know who I could trust. So I just kept my mouth quiet. I went, hid out on one of the abandoned farm places that we owned. And stayed there. I kept pretty much under wraps and then I went back to see some friends in Omaha, big mistake. Next thing I know, very shortly after that here comes the FBI knocking. They just basically came right in mom's house, period. She opened the screen door, they just pushed their way in. No search warrant, nothing. Went through the place. They came back, I wasn't home, they came back a week later. I met them at mom's place. They went through mom's place again. I mean, they went through it. They insisted that I take them over to my place. And they, I wanted a search warrant. They go, well, we can get one. We are, you know, it's better if you just let us do it. And, you know, being young I didn't know what to do. And that. You get flustered and they put you on the spot, so I let them come over. Showed them what I had. And that was pretty much it. They went through the bottom part of the house. They didn't go through the upstairs. I just told them it was my personal stuff up there, they didn't bother going up there. Didn't go through the outside buildings, nothing. After that I went out and pretty much from then on I went to just living in the van because they told me at that point that I'd best just shut up and be quiet. Be very wise to not be found. That's one of their parting statements. And I became quite worried. I went from one place to the next to the next. Often I would try not to spend more than three weeks in one place. Sometimes I would start feeling comfortable and then see if I could move in. And see if I could start a life. And ultimately somebody would pop up and remind me not to bring any of this up. They went as far as on my van, I bought a used van and got it registered, everything was okay, and next thing I know I was getting pulled over. Every time I got pulled over it came back as a two door vehicle, a two door car. So the cops would always pull me over thinking that I had wrong plates. So they could basically keep track of me wherever I went in the country. Id go to the DMV, have it supposedly switch it back, next thing I know I was getting stopped again. Moved to a different state, had it changed, told them when I got it registered that this is what the situation is. Oh, yeah, we got it taken care of. Next thing I know, getting pulled over for two door car. On a van.
THE COURT: We're going to take a recess now.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: For 15 minutes.
(10:33 to 10:49 a.m., recessed.)
THE COURT: Mr. DeCamp.
MR. DECAMP: Thank you, Your Honor.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) You understand, Rusty, you're still under oath?
A. Yes.
Q. You're under oath in a federal courtroom?
A. Yes.
Q. Federal judge. I want to go back just briefly to Chief Wadman.
A. Yes.
Q. The policeman in Omaha. Did you have any other opportunities to see him at parties or anywhere elsewhere there would have been a contact with you or Larry King or in the mix?
A. He had been there, I hadn't had personal contact with him. I'd seen him, you know, or he was pointed out as who he was to me. That way. And that's how I got to know basically who he was.
Q. So you're saying he was physically present at some of these parties?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. On more than one occasion?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. And you personally were with him in a limousine when Larry King, according to you, handed him this money?
A. I wasn't in his limousine, it was in his Mercedes, his white Mercedes.
Q. And the police chief himself physically personally told you not to worry or something like that?
A. Yeah.
Q. What did he say if you recall?
A. That was basically what the gist of it was. Larry expounded on that after he left. He was, basically he got it, he looked through, seen what was in the envelope. I hadn't seen what was in the envelope before he'd open it up. I could see what was in it. Pulled out enough to where I could see there was hundred dollar bills and a lot of them. And I knew Larry was very good about being quite generous, as he put it, to keep his affiliations. And he used to kill them with kindness. Somebody was bothering him with something or that he would just basically pad their pockets or whatever they, whatever their vice or their needs may be. Whether it be money, special gifts, whether the gifts be tangible merchandise or people. He just, he was good at arranging things and manipulating.
Q. Did he have any other methods of keeping people supporting him or not revealing some of his activities?
A. He'd get them in there, first off make them feel like they were. wanted. And, you
know, they deserved to be there and they were unwanted by the rest of the world and he
was basically their
guardian and savior. And then after you got in a while and he started to get his hooks
into you to where he was getting what he wanted, if you wanted to get away there were
some rather drastic threats made.
Q. What would those threats be?
A. He would either threaten bodily harm or in some cases actually went as far as to do away with people.
Q. Did he ever threaten you?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Why?
A. Basically because I didn't want to play his game.
Q. What was his game?
A. He was pretty much, as far as I could tell, into the gay prostitution bit for politicians and wealthy businessmen. And that he had little kids and gay prostitutes. And it was never put in those words but, you know, a friend, go visit such and such. Or we're going to have a party, we'd like you to come. Or you're supposed to be here. He would get extremely upset if I was to be at a party and I would arrive, for some reason have to leave all of a sudden. Or not show up at all. And that was the thing there. He had on several occasions there was references he'd made to me where he would flat out say, well, I can tell you this because there's no way to prove it. It's your word against mine. I'm an influential business person. I've got clout. You're nobody so they're not going to believe you. And --
Q. Who told you that?
A. Larry King. And –
Q. Did you ever hear him telling somebody else that?
A. He's told various people that. That's just, it was very well known. And if it wasn't told directly by him it was --
Q. Do you know –
A. -- through some of the other people that worked with him.
Q. Do you know if he ever carried out any of those so-called threats that you talked about?
A. I know one he told me flat you out he did, it was taken care of. This was another deal I believe through Wadman. Where it was covered up to be made to look like a suicide.
Q. Who was that?
A. Chuck Rogers, I believe, Charlie Rogers.
Q. There was a Charlie Rogers?
A. Charlie Rogers. What happened was he had his head blown off with a shotgun. They said it was a suicide. Larry flat out told me they'd had it done to him. And that it was made to look like it. And made to be covered up as, that I could be taken out the exact same wayjust as easy if I didn't go along with everything.
Q. You're telling me that Larry King told you personally face to face that he had arranged the death or killing of Charlie Rogers?
A. Yeah. And he threatened my life to boot. Since then I've had, in my travels I've had various instances where people have come up out of the blue, made references to Larry, to the credit union. I've received little notes on like windshield on my van or left on my driver's seat. Various places around. Usually it's an acorn with fire. I received one of these in El Cajon, California outside of San Diego one night. I was at a grocery store, I came back out and there was one of these on my windshield wiper.
Q. What is it?
A. It, it's usually a small piece of paper, two, three inches square and has like a doodling, looks like high school kids doodling or something like that. And it usually has an acorn with fire. That's something Larry used to do. And he told me that that basically just means drop it. Or you're going to get burned. And that's, he'd mentioned that on more than one occasion. I knew where it came from. And it was basically meant to cause to trigger an effect, you know. That straighten up and whatever. In many ways I believe it could be like Noreen mentioned, like multi personality, splitting off multi personalities. I believe Larry was into that very much. Especially with the kids that he abducted.
Q. Rusty, some of these things sound a little crazy.
A. Oh, yeah.
Q. Have you been examined by a psychiatrist?
A. Oh, yes. Dr. Beverly Brillsky.
Q. And you spent an incredible amount of time under investigation by Dr. Brillsky at the request of the state of Oregon, is that correct?
A. Eight and a half months.
Q. Is it not true that Dr. Brillsky found you completely sane and also believed your story of what you're telling right here?
A. Yeah.
Q. And for that reason you had to go to trial didn't you?
A. Yeah.
Q. I mean, you had to be, you ended up convicted?
A. Yeah, convicted of it. During this time at the Oregon state hospital in Salem, Dr. Beverly Brillsky told me in person there wasn't a thing wrong with me. The anxiety was one thing, but that could be very understandable under a situation like this. And a personality disorder is what she had to list because she had to put something. You know, she says this is something I can put on the report because I have to have something to justify my keeping you here this long. Because normally, when I was sent down there they told me to begin with I would be there three days. Okay. This was another thing finagled by Fishback. Ron Fishback, my public defender out there. There was some very interesting things. I couldn't get any cooperation hardly whatsoever from anywhere I would turn out there. Judge, whatever. While I was at the Oregon state hospital we would be allowed to go outside for an hour a day for rec. And on at least one occasion that I know of for sure I was videotaped by a car that did not belong there. Okay. The staff was notified. And they weren't able to catch the people. It was specifically of me who was videotaped as being there. I was in a part of the yard with no one else, that's where the camera was pointed to. So the other thing is on these little acorn and the fire like I mentioned before, I didn't get to that, I wanted to. In El Cajon after I received that I stayed in my van for a few minutes to gather myself back together because I was quite shaken. Pulled out of the parking lot and I hadn't drove but maybe a mile when I got shot at. And it was very, very close. Again I'd received another one of those notes up here in Oregon and I got shot at again. That was east of Eugene. That case they got the passenger's side mirror on my van. And I believe it was a red Corvette that actually what I was shot from. It took out the mirror. So, you know, there's just, coming here is really, I feel like I'm going out on a limb.
Q. So why did you come here?
A. Well, basically there's a lot of people who were put through absolute hell because –
Q. Of your participation in some of the things with Larry or what?
A. Well, not so much my participation.
Q. Your involvement?
A. Because I couldn't, I couldn't stop what I knew or had an idea what was going on.
Q. Your parents, are you talking about?
A. What's that?
Q. Are you talking about your parents having suffered?
A. Oh yeah, they have. But moreso the people that were involved like Paul Bonacci and some of the other kids. I've had privy to a lot of things most people would not. I've always been good at listening very attentively even though it may not look like it. And often times I could pull out things that were being said and why they were being said and put the parts together and make it fit. Because of the events that were transpiring. But, you know, it's, Id like to see everything straightened out. I don't think it ever actually can be. Because the stories have, they're enormous, the whole story of Franklin ordeal and everything involved with it. It's absolutely incredible. It's hard to believe. Most people if I mentioned anything about this to anybody, oh yeah, yeah, right, yeah, blow me off. And I would show them pictures of say the private jets or some of the things that happened, it was just like, I guess that could have happened. Sometimes I would take, and there were days when we'd go from one session to the next to the next to the next to the next. And that, on a private jet. And I'd just drop post card in the mail and there would be half a dozen post cards with the same date on them all over the country coming in. But, you know, it's just, Id like to be able to not have to look over my shoulder. Id like to get a new life. It pretty much, everything that's come about because of this has ruined what life I have had. You know, I don't know what actually is possible. I may just be hanging myself out on a limb right now.
Q. Have I in any way encouraged you to tell anything here that is not absolutely the truth?
A. No.
Q. Are you telling absolutely the truth?
A. Yes.
Q. You understand you're in federal oath?
A. Yes.
Q. In a federal courtroom?
A. Yes.
Q. And I asked you come even though we started out adversarial, as you recall, cause I came there to look at pictures to prove Franklin --
A. Yes.
Q. -- once with the State Patrol of Oregon?
A. And I was scared to death of having you there. That's when I was made to believe by Mr. Fishback and the rest that I should keep Mr. John DeCamp as far away from as possible from me. This is what I've been told ever since day one after the place had been raided. Was you do not get even close to this man.
Q. Did you have an opportunity to have any other pictures that were not seized by the patrol?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Where are they?
A. Some were given to the FBI, some were given to Gary Caradori, that's basically what I had given him was what made him decide that he had enough to --
Q. Where did you give them to him? Did you meet him personally?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did you meet him?
A. Actually there were a couple of different occasions. I'd given him a little bit prior to July. Location I can't remember exactly where I gave those to him.
Q. Was it here?
A. It was in Nebraska.
Q. Did you give anything to him outside of Nebraska?
A. Shortly after the 4th of July I believe it was the day that he was killed.
Q. Where were you then?
A. Out by Chicago.
Q. What did you give him?
A. A lot of pictures. Some computer disks. Paperwork. A wide variety of everything.
Q. You're telling us under oath that you met and gave materials to Gary Caradori in Chicago that did what?
A. Well, it would have, if it would have got here, probably blew everything wide open. Instead he's now dead, along with his son.
Q. Do you remember what the pictures were?
A. Various people at parties of Larry King's. Some things they'd done, the drugs, stuff like that. Things that could possibly use to incriminate somebody or blackmail someone. That'ssomething, I've been in the photography for the art end of it. And if it, if I had something that I felt would be detrimental to somebody I always made sure that it was either kept away or destroyed. That I never wanted harm to come to anybody. From, from pictures that I had taken.
Q. From your contact with Larry King did you know if he has any assets, assets, money, property?
A. He was adamant having blind accounts, mainly in the Cayman Islands. I believe they were arranged for through contacts from his wife, I believe her parents were doctors in the Cayman Islands. And there were things that were said, I didn't quite get the gist of everything on it. I did have a list of account numbers at one time. He would buy rather pricey things at times, whether it be jewelry or such. Put money, stuff like that. And he also had a large supply of cash that he'd keep, I don't know exactly where at this point. But that was just in case something happened, he needed to get away, he always had something to go on. He mentioned that. It was the only wise thing to do. He always made himself out to be this astute businessman who was upstanding citizen, all this and that. But every once in a while in complete private just one on one with him then he would let his guard down and say something or other.
Q. Okay, Rusty, I'm about done. Just a final couple of questions. You've told a pretty incredible tale here today.
A. Uh-huh.
Q. Touched, essentially you've said, for example, that Larry King killed or arranged the killing of a man named Charlie Rogers, is that right?
A. Yes, that's what he told me.
Q. You said Mr. Wadman, for example, was
A. He's on the take.
Q. And was not telling the truth about you when, and was covering up your relationship with King.
A. Yeah.
Q. When the legislature was trying to find out, is that correct? You've said there's parties that Wadman and you said Alan Baer I believe, Larry King and other prominent people were at?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know that a girl is in prison named Alisha Owen for, I don't know, 10 or 15 years for saying she had a relationship with Mr. Wadman, saying, for example, that she went to these parties and they occurred and they occurred at the Twin Towers and Larry King and Alan Baer were there and are you aware of that?
A. Yeah. Yes, I was aware of her being in prison for that. And as far as Alisha Owen, I knew of her existence and that. As far personal contact of my own, I do not remember any at this point. If I got to look through my pictures if they still exist I may be able to find some. At one point somebody had said that I had taken some, I did not know if it was me or the other photographer that was posing as me. So --
Q. Do you have a scar on your right shoulder?
A. There might be a small indention, if I remember right. No major scar.
Q. Do you have anything you want to add? Any information at all you want to impart?
A. Well, first off, the lady that, at the, I'm trying to remember her name, that had the daughter at the Twin Towers that originally made the report and stated that I had, you know, just a small blond mustache and that, as far as I can remember I've never had a beard shorter than that except for the time that I spent in the Army. And as soon as I got out of the Army I've had a beard ever since, there's not been a day it's been off.
MR. DECAMP: May approach the witness, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Will you show me that picture? Is that one of the ones that was in this suitcase?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. And this is you back at the time when you were with Larry King?
A. I believe that was actually in the apartment.
Q. Which apartment?
A. 3B on Twin Towers.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, I'd like to offer this in evidence.
THE COURT: It may be marked.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) And you identified some other pictures of Larry King in Washington for example. Is the note -
MR. DECAMP: The witness is writing something, Your Honor.
A. On the back of this as far as I can remember I put who the people are.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) And who are the people?
A. The man with the dark looks like Navy blue suit with the red tie and white shirt, that is Larry King. The man with the light blue suit behind him is a Dr. Waterman. Next to that, the lady in the colorful coat is I believe his cousin and that was his attorney at the credit union. And then the two guys were basically some of Larry's playmates.
Q. Okay. And where would this picture have been taken?
A. I believe it was in New York City or possibly Washington, D. C..
Q. And when would it have been taken?
A. Probably the spring of 1988.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, I'd like to offer that into evidence.
THE COURT: It will be marked, is it Exhibit 3?
THE CLERK: Exhibit 3.
THE COURT: All right. Exhibits 2 and 3 are received.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) There were some big pictures of Larry King and some place -- do you know where they are?
A. There.
Q. What is this picture?
A. That is Larry King at the black history museum, I think that's the name of it. In Harlem, it's in New York City.
Q. And you would have been with him?
A. Along with, Dr. Waterman and, let's see, trying to think. There was a bunch of us. The attorney.
Q. How would you have traveled there?
A. The private jet.
Q. Whose private jet?
A. Larry's, Larry chartered one or had one.
Q. Did you frequently travel on this jet with him?
A. Quite often.
Q. And where all did you travel, do you remember?
A. Minneapolis, Chicago, New York, DC, New Orleans.
Q. Sometimes have children on the airplane?
A. Yes.
Q. Young people?
A. Yeah.
Q. How young?
A. There was one situation went back to Washington, D. C. he had probably 10, 12 years old.
Q. Boys, girls?
A. Both.
Q. And this would have been what year approximately you took this, you know?
A. That would have been the spring of 88.
MR. DECAMP: May I offer this in evidence, Your Honor?
THE COURT: About when did you say, what was the date?
THE WITNESS: Spring of 88.
THE COURT: 88.
Q. (by Mr. DeCamp) And do you recognize this picture?
THE COURT: Exhibit 4 is received.
A. That's inside his mansion at Embassy Row in Washington, D. C.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) When you say his mansion, whose mansion?
A. Larry King's.
Q. And were you in that mansion?
A. Yeah. I stayed upstairs at, my room was in straight up from the stairway.
Q. What did you do there?
A. Take pictures of everything from flower garden to parties.
Q. There were parties there?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Who attended the parties?
A. Prominent business people, very prominent high ranking government officials, politicians. The younger people. Usually what would transpire was they would have a party and then a party after the party type of deal. And that was pretty much it.
Q. I'm not sure I understand a party and then a party after the party. What's the party after the party?
A. The party after the party was more of a sex type deal. That's what Larry would --
Q. These old politicians were having sex with each other?
A. Or people that Larry would bring.
Q. Who were these people Larry brought for them?
A. Some younger people. Some of these playmates or pals that Larry had acquired. He'd have different people in different cities. Like in Minneapolis, that was very popular for him at that time was to go up to Minneapolis, The Gay 90's was a club up there that he frequented.
Q. Did you take pictures of these parties?
A. I took pictures at some of the parties, yes. When it got to where they'd do, get into sexual stuff and that I tried to avoid doing things like that though that I didn't want used against people. And didn't want to get myself tangled in to it. So I would make whatever excuse to try to avoid it whenever possible.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, may I offer this?
THE COURT: Exhibit 5 is received.
MR. DECAMP: Thank you, Your Honor.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) You mentioned parties, pictures, a lot of pictures apparently took for Larry?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Is that correct? When I was in Oregon during the 45 minutes I had I saw more pictures than I thought could exist in a whole museum in a lifetime. And diaries apparently written by you, is that correct?
A. Yes. I always kept notebooks. I have a full sized one similar to this numbered from I to 28 so I have every hour of the day. And for the most part I've tried to keep them accurate unless I was doing something to where it may come back and haunt me. Like providing things for Gary Caradori or things like that I would cover the diary up by doing something so if somebody picked it up to read through it they wouldn't see that I was the one who provided something and Id be tracked down.
Q. Rusty, these pictures and diaries, III be honest with you, I've seen some of the things in the limited amount of time and I have never seen anything such detail. Do you really write every day down like this?
A. Every day. I've got one sitting in my knapsack back here. Every hour. I can tell you pretty much what I've done within the hour usually within 15 minutes.
Q. These diaries dated back to when you were with Larry King?
A. Keeping diaries since high school.
Q. If these pictures and these diaries were turned over to us or to the court so we could go through them, you could go through them, would you be able to provide more information possibly to this court or --
A. Oh yes.
Q. -- or any court or U. S. Attorney on some events if they still exist?
A. Yes, I do believe.
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, I'm not sure how to make this request, there's any way this court could refer that to the judge out there, a county judge offered to preserve them and turn them over to us eventually to me for a case, but they've since got entangled. I'm not sure how you do it. Any way this court could get that material ordered turned over to us? To a U. S. Attorney or somebody that could look at it.
THE COURT: Well, I don't see any way. But I suppose the major concern I have is that the sole purpose of this hearing is to determine how much money would compensate Mr. Bonacci for whatever Mr. King did to him.
MR. DECAMP: I understand that, Your Honor. Just hopeful some of the other things that are of even more paramount --
THE COURT: They may be to you, you see, but for this lawsuit, this hearing, I can I say there's anything more paramount than that.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Are there any other pictures here, a picture, would you identify this one?
A. Those are the same two you submitted.
Q. Blowups of those others?
A. Yeah.
Q. Do you have other pictures other than the ones in Oregon secreted anywhere, hidden?
A. I hid them, if they still exist. I have no idea. I haven't been back.
Q. But there are other pictures?
A. Yes, there are.
Q. Would they include any of those you gave Gary Caradori?
A. I believe so. Some of them I had copies of. I had a dark room out in my farm. And some of the things I would make copies of. More than one. Photocopies of some of the things or whatever. And they were placed in hopefully protective situations to where weather and such wouldn't get to them. They're in very difficult places to --
Q. Do you recognize this picture?
A. Yes.
Q. Identify it.
A. That's one of the private jets and limousines we threw, or we flew in on this private jet.
Q. Who's in the picture?
A. That was the captain, I believe Larry King is the one standing in back of the limousine here. As for the other people, they're already inside. And I think that was taken at Dulles airport.
Q. Dallas or Dulles?
A. Dulles, out by Washington.
Q. Dulles?
A. Yeah.
Q. And when would it have been taken if you know?
A. Spring of 88. That's when the majority of this went on was in the winter and spring of 88.
MR. DECAMP: Like to offer this, Your Honor.
THE COURT: It will be Exhibit 6. It's received.
MR. DECAMP: No further questions unless you have some final comments or observation you'd like to make that you want to get to a judge in a court.
A. That's basically it from me right now. There's so much that's went on it's hard to bring everything up all in this short of a time. And copy of it all.
Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) When did you learn you were possibly coming here? Was it Wednesday?
A. Oh, right now?
Q. Yes.
A. I've been trying to get back for almost a couple of years now to do this. And they've hampered everything I've done.
Q. When did you learn that I had made, when did you --
A. Wednesday late afternoon.
Q. So Wednesday late afternoon?
A. Finally got through to a different parole officer to where she gave the okay. I don I know who got to her or what. But the whole attitude changed night and day. About what I, what I was, had to offer. And what I was trying to accomplish. So --
Q. And you're aware of the fact that I first learned of your existence for real by being called by the Oregon State Patrol?
A. I think that was Detective Pogge got ahold.
Q. Detective Rader was his name.
A. Rader.
Q. And did you have a copy of this book in your possession?
A. Yeah. My brother had overnighted me a copy when I was in San Diego.
Q. And was looking in there that he identified your name?
A. Yes.
Q. As, is that correct?
A. Yes. As associated with this. And at that point everything just went, they clamped down on me so hard. They put me in solitary cell. I mean, it was just one thing to the other. They would come in and either send me to the doctor or have somebody come in to talk to me. And they tell me, okay, you did this, you did that, and they'd just drill me, whatever I had supposedly done. And then they'd send me back to my cell and let me sit. Or they'd get you in and the doctor would put you on medication, they pushed psychotic drugs unbelievable, way more than what should have been for depression, whatever else. They wanted everybody in that unit or whatever unit I've been in to get in that med line every time so they could get them dependent on the drugs. You could tell that you were getting ready to go to court if you had anything that was controversial, people had things that were controversial or trying to fight their cases, they could discontinue their drugs or for some reason screw up the orders a day, two, three days ahead of time. And then they would be totally out of balance when they went to court. You know, it was pressure tactics that were, you know, unbelievable. I'd never been in any kind of a situation like that. I have no idea what to expect. I've been just flabbergasted.
MR. DECAMP: Okay. I have no further questions, Your Honor. Like to offer a copy of this book since it was the thing that generated.
THE COURT: It will be Exhibit 7. It's received. Did you ever have any association with Paul Bonacci?
THE WITNESS: I knew who he was.
THE COURT: I'm sorry?
THE WITNESS: I knew who he was.
THE COURT: How did you know who he was?
THE WITNESS: Through Larry King.
THE COURT: Through Larry King.
THE WITNESS: Larry King.
THE COURT: Larry King talk about him?
THE WITNESS: Oh yeah.
THE COURT: What did he say?
THE WITNESS: He wanted me to take pictures of Paul, various other children or various other people.
THE COURT: Did he say why?
THE WITNESS: In compromising position, you know, sexual type things. Actually Larry wanted me to do a gay porn and kiddie porn for him and he pushed that so hard. And he, you know, pointed out Paul and tried to get things in that case. You know, he wanted me to go with Paul and that. I have no inclination towards being homosexual, anything like that. I avoided wherever possible that I could.
THE COURT: Did you take any pictures of Paul Bonacci as far as you know?
THE WITNESS: I may have. I may have. I don't, you know, without going through, I have got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pictures in 20 years, it's hard to keep track of just one or two.
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you very much. You may stand down, sir.
THE WITNESS: Appreciate it.
THE COURT: Okay. Mr. DeCamp?
MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, the next witness I'd want to call is Paul Bonacci.
THE COURT: All right.
THE CLERK: Sir, would you state your full name and spell your last name, please?
THE WITNESS: Paul Anthony B